blatent lie in a police statement

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:50 pm

You may see it as playing with fire...I see it as over zealous police....somewhat bullying people....they know the average person wont contest a fine...a lawyer is more expensive than the fine itself and very likely to get full costs recovered.

If the police were honest with their statement...then it would be a fair fight....however for them to be dishonest...or extremely mistaken...is completely unfair to the general public.

So yes its somewhat a moral crusade...I've never been one to back down from a fight with authority...and I have never been one to just lay down and cop it when I have done nothing wrong

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8232
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Hardy » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:22 pm

If an accused person got acquitted every time they identified something in a police statement that was not correct, there would be no need for jails or lawyers.

Gravy
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:25 am

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Gravy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:18 am

@vulgarwolf - I think you have the wrong impression of my posts.

I am not for a moment questioning your intent, moral justification, or the facts as you relay them. To a very large degree I share your view on the first two and I accept the facts as you state them. The reason I am challenging your tactics on a technical level is because I empathise with you, not because I am judging you.

I don't think you should lay down and cop it. If I were in your situation, I would sure as hell take it in front of a magistrate as you are doing. It's just that I would hate to read that your opportunity was wasted, or the outcome was adverse to you, because you focused too much on a type of evidence that was never going to help you. Or that you let your (understandable) frustration cloud the rational preparation and presentation of your defence; hence my caution vis. playing with fire.

On a purely logical level - if your dashcam footage clearly shows you were in the lane the police claim to have occupied, that to your left was a truck and to your right no vehicle, does that not achieve what you were hoping the GPS data would achieve? And without having to pay an expert witness? If nothing else it's certainly simpler to demonstrate and to understand.

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:50 pm

As I was the first vehicle to the lights there is no truck visible...the footage shows me in the lane I was in, drive through the intersection and pull over.

The reason for the GPS data is because I believe theres no such thing as too many nails in a coffin. I like to really drive a point home...an officer can deny 1 piece of evidence eg the dash cam...however when more and more evidence stacks up against them, it doesn't make them look the best...if anything they may start to look uncomfortable on the stand...I want this, and I want the magistrate to see it.

I want to overwhelm the magistrate with information to the point that they cant see any other possible scenario other than the one I have given.

In life there have been too many times where loose ends haven't been tied up..and they have came back to bite me....i'm doing the best I can now to ensure that doesn't happen again

Slattery
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:24 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Slattery » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:51 pm

https://www.amazon.com.au/Leather-Busin ... 5675&psc=1

"That's a picture of them item I had in my hand."

Are you saying there was nothing in the leather case? Do you just like the feel of leather in your hand while you drive :D :D :D

notquiteright
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:26 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby notquiteright » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:52 pm

"From the distance they were and the wording in their statement of "Making a texting motion"...I feel they know from the distance I was they couldn't make a clear identification....so claiming they were next to me to make their version of events much more believable".

Why are you bothering about all this GPS stuff? What's the difference if they made a clear identification of a texting or not? You had a notebook/calculator on your lap - I don't know much about traffic law (that's why I come to this blog), but is that even an offence? If you didn't have a mobile phone on your lap then you don't have a problem. I assume there is no evidence in the police statement about the presence of a mobile phone in the car?

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am

notquiteright wrote:"From the distance they were and the wording in their statement of "Making a texting motion"...I feel they know from the distance I was they couldn't make a clear identification....so claiming they were next to me to make their version of events much more believable".

Why are you bothering about all this GPS stuff? What's the difference if they made a clear identification of a texting or not? You had a notebook/calculator on your lap - I don't know much about traffic law (that's why I come to this blog), but is that even an offence? If you didn't have a mobile phone on your lap then you don't have a problem. I assume there is no evidence in the police statement about the presence of a mobile phone in the car?


Have you ever been accused of anything and gone to court....its not about what you say and words....9 times out of 10 the magistrate will believe the words of 2 police officers over a normal civilian.

I personally believe to defeat them in this situation its about taking their lack of accuracy in their statement..and exploiting it as much as possible and making the magistrate believe that they have been dishonest in a malicious way.

Once credibility has been lost by either party in a case...its quite rare that they are successful

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:44 am


notquiteright
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:26 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby notquiteright » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:47 pm

Well if that's what you had in your hand then you can't lose because its a notepad and calculator, not a mobile phone. It does seem a very unusual and unfair that you're being charged with using a mobile phone when there is no mobile phone present. If I was charged with using a notebook and calculator while driving I would fight it in court too! I assume there isn't anything mentioned in the police statement about a mobile phone is there?

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:04 pm

off to play today for a mention hearing...shall keep you all updated...found out the police haven't supplied the subpoenad information to the court.

Naughty Naughty

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:54 pm

another adjournment....I did today receive another statement from the officer....now the thing I find strange in the second statement.

No mention of the lane they were in
no mention of the lane I was in
No mention of direction travelled by either vehicle.
No description of car or registration number.
My name not even mentioned in the statement.

I'm finding it interesting that this later statement is extremely vague.

Also yet to receive the corroborators statement, or the officers notes taken at the time that I requested.

Now the waiting game until the 20th of april

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:02 pm

Received a phone call from the prosecution today....just as I was handing in new subpoena forms.

I was informed after more review of the evidence they have decided to withdraw the charges!!!
She offered to have it in court before the next mention date on the 20th of april and she could do that without me being present.
I requested that she leave it until the mention date as upon the withdrawal I shall be handing in a costs form.

So far its cost me 2 afternoons off work...and numerous hours writing and filing subpoenas.

How are costs generally calculated...i'm pretty sure I am unable to charge at a solicitors rate

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8232
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Hardy » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:50 pm

You can't claim legal costs if you have not incurred any. You may also find that the police decline to drop the charge if they think they will have to pay costs. No point paying for the cost of a fight and not having the fight.

Gravy
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:25 am

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Gravy » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:52 am

vulgarwolf - just to drive Sean's point from a layperson's perspective; "costs" in the context of litigation means legal fees/retainer. There's no such thing as "I'm not claiming legal costs, just my costs". Costs are costs and don't include your own time, parking fees, travel, accommodation the night before the hearing, etc.If you didn't engage a lawyer then you have no costs to claim.

You got a good result. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8232
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Hardy » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:10 pm

It is a good result for you. Best to accept the offer while it exists. But if spending your time chasing costs is more important than avoiding demerit points then let us know how that turns out.

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:31 pm

To go a bit more in detail....after there were 2 statements from the informant..the magistrate looked at that a little funny...when I was pushing to subpoena the GPS data they were heavily against it.

Due to no statement from corroborating officer ..I believe he refused to lie and follow the other officers statement which was totally incorrect.

I shall be putting it to the judge that I spoke with the sergeant at the station about the officers statement and I was fobbed off...I spoke to the prosecutor at first mention and was fobbed off....at second mention when I showed dash cam to them..and stated I shall need a bit more time for get the subpoenas happening properly..there was a shitfight there...once the magi gave me more time and knew I was going to do it...the prosecution realised they would be putting an officer on the stand to lie and be caught out.

Given that from the start I was open blunt and honest about their officers statement and then furthermore proving it...I am going to request that I am entitled to the 3 days pay that I had to miss by going to court for a matter that was withdrawn

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8232
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Hardy » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:25 pm

It’s not often you see statements from a corroborator in a preliminary brief in a traffic matter.

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:13 pm

The prosecutor said at first mention...at the second mention they will have notes from both officers....

yet at second mention...I was just given another statement from informant...and prosecutor stated "We wont really be using the first statement in a contested hearing..we will use this one"

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8232
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:45 am

In fact none are used. They are just FYI to you.

vulgarwolf
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: blatent lie in a police statement

Postby vulgarwolf » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:13 pm

Isnt the statement what the prosecutor reads out at the start of the hearing...such as at a mention ?? Anytime I have been in court and watched other cases the prosecutor always reads out the charge and the story of the event


Return to “Mobile Phones”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests