Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Yellow Lights
andy77
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby andy77 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:59 pm

Hi all,

Car stalled as the light was Amber but was still moving forward

My Front Tyre was over the Main White Line as the Light Turned Red. I restarted the engine as the car continued to move forward.

Recieved Red Light s60 Infringement Notice :cry:

1st Photo (0.9 sec) : Shows the Car's Front Tyre's 1m 'AFTER' the White Line (remainder of car behind White Line)

2nd Photo: Shows the Car in the Middle of the intersection

I always thought you were safe as long as the Front Tyre had passed the White Line (that's what a policeman told me)

However, reading the regulations, it says I must not enter the intersection.

Is my Front wheels 1m passed the White Line considered "entering the intersection" ? If so, then I entered the intersection while it was Amber

Am I in a good position to dispute this ?


"ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 60
Proceeding through a red traffic arrow
If traffic arrows at an intersection or marked foot crossing are showing a red traffic arrow, and a driver is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow, the driver must not enter the intersection or marked foot crossing."

Hardy
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Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby Hardy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Am I in a good position to dispute this ?

It depends what you mean by dispute. If you mean seek an internal review, of course you can but there is a 0% chance it will achieve anything other than an 8 week delay.

If you mean defend the allegation in court, you can do that too but nothing you have said in your post is going to help you even a tiny bit at court. There are ways to win camera cases and I win many but I'm guessing you are looking for a cheap and easy way to get out of it, not an expensive drawn-out court case. If you defend it yourself in court, the chance of getting anywhere with it is quite low, because you will be arguing that you could not avoid entering the intersection against the red signal because your car stalled. There are numerous weaknesses with that defence so I don't give it much hope at all. If you want to win it you will need to engage a barrister who can run arguments that actually work.

You talk about the lines, but the lines have nothing to do with it. The offence is not crossing the stop line on a red signal, it is entering the intersection on a red signal. The intersection exists independently of any lines. Nothing you have said supports the notion that your car did not enter the intersection against a red signal. How or why it entered on a red has nothing to do with it. Also, you shouldn't simply assume the magistrate is going to believe your car stalled while being driven through an intersection, and there magistrate might ask whether the brakes still operate when the car is stalled.

Day
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby Day » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 pm

Post the image.

andy77
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby andy77 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:23 pm

Hardy wrote:
Am I in a good position to dispute this ?

If you mean defend the allegation in court, you can do that too but nothing you have said in your post is going to help you even a tiny bit at court. There are ways to win camera cases and I win many but I'm guessing you are looking for a cheap and easy way to get out of it, not an expensive drawn-out court case. If you defend it yourself in court, the chance of getting anywhere with it is quite low, because you will be arguing that you could not avoid entering the intersection against the red signal because your car stalled. There are numerous weaknesses with that defence so I don't give it much hope at all. If you want to win it you will need to engage a barrister who can run arguments that actually work.


At $400 - 600 per hour for a barrister, it's not economically feasible for me to dispute a $400 ticket unless I can defend it myself. Unless I am missing something ...

Hardy wrote:
You talk about the lines, but the lines have nothing to do with it. The offence is not crossing the stop line on a red signal, it is entering the intersection on a red signal. The intersection exists independently of any lines. Nothing you have said supports the notion that your car did not enter the intersection against a red signal. How or why it entered on a red has nothing to do with it. Also, you shouldn't simply assume the magistrate is going to believe your car stalled while being driven through an intersection, and there magistrate might ask whether the brakes still operate when the car is stalled.


Yes, entering the intersection is what I understood from reading the regulation.

Is there a magistrates court in VIC the general public can visit and listen in to see how traffic infringement matters are dealt with before I decide whether to dispute this red light ticket in a court ?

Day
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby Day » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:44 pm

Is there a magistrates court in VIC the general public can visit and listen in to see how traffic infringement matters are dealt with before I decide whether to dispute this red light ticket in a court ?


Any of them. Public can attend and sit in.

Yes, entering the intersection is what I understood from reading the regulation.


The intersection doesnt start at the line. Make sure you are aware of where the intersection actually starts.

Hardy
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
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Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby Hardy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:13 am

Barristers won’t charge an hourly rate. It is a job rate. So about $3500 upwards depending on how far (how many court attendances and appeals) it goes. If your goal is to save money, then take it to coirt, plead not guilty, give in at the last minute and seek a s.76 with no fine imposed. You’ll waste two or three days of your life but at least there is a good chance of saving $400.
Your explanation for the offence does not seem to be a defence - it looks like an admission of guilt.

andy77
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby andy77 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Hardy wrote:..., plead not guilty, give in at the last minute and seek a s.76 with no fine imposed. You’ll waste two or three days of your life but at least there is a good chance of saving $400.


Is that s76 of the Infringements Act (Applying for payment order) ?

... requires "a statement setting out the financial circumstances of the applicant"

Not sure how this would save me $400 ;)

Hardy wrote:Your explanation for the offence does not seem to be a defence - it looks like an admission of guilt.


Sure it is. I can't be liable for a mechanical fault of the vehicle.
If the vehicle had not stalled, I would have entered the 'intersection' while it was Amber :)

oscargamer
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby oscargamer » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 pm

This was asked on another forum with a different story:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... ?t=2740688

And here are the photos:
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/780459810401454004/

No mention of stalling or "mechanical faults"


andy77 wrote:Hi all,

Car stalled as the light was Amber but was still moving forward

My Front Tyre was over the Main White Line as the Light Turned Red. I restarted the engine as the car continued to move forward.

Recieved Red Light s60 Infringement Notice :cry:

1st Photo (0.9 sec) : Shows the Car's Front Tyre's 1m 'AFTER' the White Line (remainder of car behind White Line)

2nd Photo: Shows the Car in the Middle of the intersection

I always thought you were safe as long as the Front Tyre had passed the White Line (that's what a policeman told me)

However, reading the regulations, it says I must not enter the intersection.

Is my Front wheels 1m passed the White Line considered "entering the intersection" ? If so, then I entered the intersection while it was Amber

Am I in a good position to dispute this ?


"ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 60
Proceeding through a red traffic arrow
If traffic arrows at an intersection or marked foot crossing are showing a red traffic arrow, and a driver is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow, the driver must not enter the intersection or marked foot crossing."

Hardy
Site Admin
Posts: 8465
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne Victoria
Contact:

Re: Car stalled going through intersection - received red light infringement notice

Postby Hardy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:13 pm

Try section 76 of the Sentencing Act.

Also see http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/red.lights.html


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