VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

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zoidberg
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:40 pm

VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby zoidberg » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:46 pm

Hi all,

After receiving a handwritten traffic infringement notice from a nice chap from the "Victorian Highway Patrol" I did some research into the regulatory requirements for what the notice must contain. I was surprised to find that these forms seem to fail to meet 2 regulatory requirements, plus in my particular case a third.

Transport (Infringements) Regulations 2010
(1) In addition to the requirements of section 13 of the Infringements Act 2006, an infringement notice must state whether it is an infringement notice in relation to--
...
(b) a transport infringement


Handwritten police infringements (VP Form 508F) don't have the words "transport infringement". In fact, they barely have the words "traffic infringement", but do have the word "traffic" on its own in the corner (next to a tick-box -- The other option is "excessive speed" which is also not a term in the act).

Infringements (Reporting and Prescribed
Details and Forms) Regulations 2006

8 (1) For the purposes of section 13 of the Act, the
prescribed details which an infringement notice
must contain are—
...
(h) the Act or other instrument that creates the
infringement offence and a brief description
of the infringement offence alleged to have
been committed;


Two separate issues arise from this section:
- The infringement has "RR20" instead of actually referencing the act or regulation. This seems to be common practice and may apply to many other notices.
- Also, the infringement notice in my case has the wrong offence. After not crossing out the correct sections and filling in the box incorrectly, the infringement notice reads:
"Exceed speed limit in a * [vehicle other than a heave vehicle] by ** [less than 10km/h] / ** [10km/h or more but less than 15km/h].
The officer should have crossed out the <10km/h box, and should have written 25 instead of 15 for a light vehicle.

OK, I know that smart people have been looking over these forms for years and it's unlikely that I've found anything groundbreaking. But still, anyone have any thoughts on any of these 3 issues?

Hardy
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:40 pm

You could write to the police member who issued the notice to you and point out all the errors you have found and insist that they issue a notice that complied with the legislation. Else you could ignore the anomalies and just deal with it as if it contained no faults at all

Oh, and you are looking at the wrong regulations - so the police will just ROFLTFAO if you complain about the transport regs. A Transport Infringement is having your feet on the seat, smoking or drinking on the train or riding a tram without a ticket etc etc.

Day
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Day » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:53 pm

Hardy wrote:Oh, and you are looking at the wrong regulations - so the police will just ROFLTFAO if you complain about the transport regs.


Damn!?! Beat me to it! :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, and Doc, best you read the important parts of legislation at the begining to ensure you have the right stuff -

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/ ... 02/s1.html

Just out of interest, what did you get pinged for? :|

Hardy
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:06 pm

Looks like the offence was exceed speed limit by between 10 and 15kmh and the complaint is that the notice alleges a speed between 1 and 15kmh over the limit.
Also looks like absolutely nothing at all wrong with this infringement notice, because even if the form is filled out improperly that does not matter unless there is a legislative requirement that it be filled out correctly.

Day
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Day » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Hardy wrote:Looks like it was exceed speed limit by between 10 and 15kmh.
Also looks like absolutely nothing at all wrong with the infringement notice.


Sorry. Forgot to read the rest of the post.. :oops: The Cab Merlot was flowing too smoothly. :wink:

Hardy
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Hardy » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Is it possible that the infringement notice is invalid if it refers to a "heave vehicle" and not a heavy vehicle as required?

Also, it is possible the offence was speeding by 15 - 25kmh over the limit, seeing the OP complains that the ticket did not allege that speed.

zoidberg
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:40 pm

Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby zoidberg » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:53 pm

OK, thanks guys. Sorry for the slow reply - the notify feature didn't work.

It was alleged I was doing slightly over 110 on a freeway at 6am. Chap set up his speed trap less than 5 minutes after a police 2-lane roadblock which made everyone late for work, then pinged them when they sped up. Sorry, just whinging.

So the first point is not valid - wrong act. My bad.
Are the second points valid? The Infringement regulations refer to the Infringement Act, which includes traffic tickets. The TIN does not state the act as required, and the offence does not quite exist. Hardy, I know not to write and request a new TIN. But as you imply, if the TIN was never valid then is it possible to wait until a later stage and argue a TIN was never served after it's too late for them to take other action. Or is it possible to pay the TIN and then argue at a future time that the demerit points shouldn't have been deducted as there was never a valid TIN?

Would love to dodge these demerits if at all possible. Or to delay paying as long as possible to allow a separate request for an Official Warning to go through (it was a bad week!).

Cheers!

Hardy
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Hardy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:39 pm

Once vicroads is told to record the points based on the TIN (following either payment or enforcement order) you will struggle to remove the points permanently. One way to try is to seek revocation of the enforcement order, then have the case referred to hearing, then dispute the "charge" based on the TIN being invalid. There is really no other way to get a court to determine that a TIN is invalid if points are the issue. Even an Order 56 won't work because you need to start that proceeding within 8 weeks of the harm commencing and that will simply alert the police to issue a new TIN. I guess you could issue the proceeding within 8 weeks, but not serve it for another 11 months!?! That will give you some time to save up the $15,000 it would cost to run this case through the Supreme Court. In Korybutiak's case I succeeded twice in getting courts to hold that a TIN is invalid - only to be over-ruled by the court of appeal! Another problem with this theory is your TIN is very likely valid. See McMahon v. DPP Unreported, Court of Appeal, 20 June 1995 where the court says an abbreviation of legislation will suffice. If a TIN is invalid then you might think ignoring it is a good idea. But similarly to being falsely imprisoned, ignoring it does not solve the problem. You still need to get the points set aside and there is no easy (or hard) way to do that.

Day
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Re: VicPol not complying with TIN requirements?

Postby Day » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:40 pm

Can you scan the tin, remove all the information identifying you, your vehicle and the officer, and post it here so we can see what you are referring to.


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