Prolaser III questions

Prolaser III, Prolaser IV, Prolite+
UTS
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:42 pm

Prolaser III questions

Postby UTS » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:08 pm

Hi, newby here,

I have been looking through this forum and there is some very good discussions and advice here. Well done Hardy et al.

I was lasered recently and the Police Officer showed me the LIDAR screen which showed the numerals "74" in large letters in the middle of the screen. It was not flashing, and there didn't appear to be anything else on the screen (as I recall). I am contesting this case, and the Brief Of Evidence provided by the Police says it showed flashing numerals 74 and 170.4.

I have a copy of the operators manual which says that in "speed" mode it should display "SPEED" with flashing numerals underneath. It doesn't say when the flashing stops.

My questions are "what mode was the Lidar in to display just "74", and what does a flashing and steady display mean?

Many thanks for any info.

Cheers,

Chef2
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Chef2 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:39 pm

Even in ranging mode it would say "range" and a set of numerals. There aren't any states I can think of that would show numerals in the middle of the screen that were steady. I'd suggest your recollection maybe flawed.

Hardy
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Hardy » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:49 pm

LIDAR is in NSW, not Vic.
Do you know what the make and model of the LIDAR is?

Chef2
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Chef2 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:13 pm

Fail to search is fail to find Sean, have a look at the thread subject!

Day
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Day » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:27 pm

UTS wrote:
I was lasered recently and the Police Officer showed me the LIDAR screen which showed the numerals "74" in large letters in the middle of the screen. It was not flashing, and there didn't appear to be anything else on the screen (as I recall).


I would agree with Chef, it sounds like you were mistaken. If you have a look at the picture, in this link, you will see the set out of the display.

http://www.pbelectronics.com/ProLaserIII_2.JPG

Let us know how you go.

Cheers.

UTS
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby UTS » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:28 am

Sorry, should have mentioned I am from over the border.

Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, I could be wrong ( I have been known to be wrong before :oops: ) but when the officer flagged me down I thought this was a RBT station. The thought of speed or "Oh DRAT! I've just been sprung for speeding" never entered my mind. So I was very surprised when he babbled on about speed and showed me the LIDAR. The 2 numerals are very clear in my mind.

The other question - how long for the flashing display to become steady?

Cheers,

Chef2
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:04 pm

Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Chef2 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:01 am

I've never seen it go steady, I've looked at a laser several hours after use & still blinking away.

2185xx
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby 2185xx » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:20 am

interesting this same thing happened to the other day, and now that i have Australian Standard 4691.2-2003 A7 i see it states "When a new type of laser-based speed detection device is introduced into operation, each operator who will be using it shall be trained to use the new device". now every time i have been to court the copper has this old carddoard card that he says is his qualification that is dated 1996 but no where does it say that he has been retrained on any thing since that date. now every time i have to training for any thing i get a new card issued! my lic. has car,bike,truck HR and bus. the same as all my tickets, thay all show that i have done the training so the next time i go to court i will say the the officer has not shown any evadance of training for that new device.
it is a small loop hole but when there all put up together next time i want the case dropped.
my two cents.
rustyone

BN2
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby BN2 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:00 pm

rustyone wrote:interesting this same thing happened to the other day, and now that i have Australian Standard 4691.2-2003 A7 i see it states "When a new type of laser-based speed detection device is introduced into operation, each operator who will be using it shall be trained to use the new device". now every time i have been to court the copper has this old carddoard card that he says is his qualification that is dated 1996 but no where does it say that he has been retrained on any thing since that date. now every time i have to training for any thing i get a new card issued! my lic. has car,bike,truck HR and bus. the same as all my tickets, thay all show that i have done the training so the next time i go to court i will say the the officer has not shown any evadance of training for that new device.
it is a small loop hole but when there all put up together next time i want the case dropped.
my two cents.
rustyone


Point machine at car, press button, observe reading.

Doesn't really require too much training.

The laser only has about 4 buttons.

2185xx
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby 2185xx » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:25 am

yep, i know the training has to be simple, the point was that the officers credentual does not say he has been trained . if i said to you i have a ticket to drive at 200km/h any where i like, would you not want to see it? i saying that if you have the training you should show that you have been is all.

Day
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Day » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:56 am

rustyone wrote:yep, i know the training has to be simple, the point was that the officers credentual does not say he has been trained . if i said to you i have a ticket to drive at 200km/h any where i like, would you not want to see it? i saying that if you have the training you should show that you have been is all.


They don't need to be able to show you at the time of stopping you. They just need to be able to show that evidence at court. Each device they have been trained in will be listed on their card with the date of qualification.

2185xx
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby 2185xx » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:07 pm

Day wrote:
rustyone wrote:yep, i know the training has to be simple, the point was that the officers credentual does not say he has been trained . if i said to you i have a ticket to drive at 200km/h any where i like, would you not want to see it? i saying that if you have the training you should show that you have been is all.


They don't need to be able to show you at the time of stopping you. They just need to be able to show that evidence at court. Each device they have been trained in will be listed on their card with the date of qualification.


point of order here "NO they didn't" and i asked the officer in court under oath to show his qualification to the court and it was dated 1996 which cover a laser device, l then pointed out the state received the device he used in 2007, (no requalification shown). At that point the prosicutor jumps up and stated that it was irrelevant because the rule book said the police could use any of devices listed and the magistrate told me to move on. how come then their are rules for us and the rules for police that can be deemed irrelevant by the court? now i'm going to court again 1st Dec with a 100% winnable case, what's the bet i get bullied by the court again because i don't have a lawer on the day!
lt's like if you go to court alone (no council in tow) and your not guilty of the crime and point this out you just get slammed with it any way.

oscar
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby oscar » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:15 pm

wow....so many holes in what you've just said...

Day
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Day » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:29 pm

rustyone wrote:point of order here "NO they didn't" and i asked the officer in court under oath to show his qualification to the court and it was dated 1996 which cover a laser device, l then pointed out the state received the device he used in 2007, (no requalification shown). At that point the prosicutor jumps up and stated that it was irrelevant because the rule book said the police could use any of devices listed and the magistrate told me to move on. how come then their are rules for us and the rules for police that can be deemed irrelevant by the court? now i'm going to court again 1st Dec with a 100% winnable case, what's the bet i get bullied by the court again because i don't have a lawer on the day!
lt's like if you go to court alone (no council in tow) and your not guilty of the crime and point this out you just get slammed with it any way.


Just out of interest, was the qualification listed in the brief? What colour and size was it when you were shown it in court? What state did this all occur in?

2185xx
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby 2185xx » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:06 am

well this is in victoria, the photo copy of his card that came with the brief states he has certs. for digitector 5/3/1998, moving mode radar 5/3/1998, radar speed camera 5/3/1998 and on the back, laser speed measuring device 18/8/1998. The card it self is 3''x2'' when folded up. now can also tell you that device (No. PL215) was received buy Speed Measurment Support in Collingwood for it first calibretion 27/5/2005 also that the state didn't have any of these devices prior to 4/5/2005 because thats the date the first purchase order was sent the supplier.
I was going on memory before but now i have dug up the case record.
FACT!
oh, in court we never got to see his ticket because the prosicutor put up the irrelevant point to which the judge said move on. i wasn't about to ask the judge why he agreed with the prosicutor.

Day
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Day » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:16 am

What's with the yelling of the "NO" and "FACT"? You are coming across as a little childish when people are trying to help you.

The fact of the matter is that both laser devices are identical in their use and handling. There is nothing that says a person needs to be re trained for something that is identical in operation and result. It is like cars, they perform the same way and have the same controls and turn in the same direction when you turn the wheel when in motion. You stated that you had to get relicenced for every new thing you learnt, car/motorbike/truck, well thoses things are significantly different in the same way. Would you suggest that we do a new course every time we wanted to buy / hire a different car? Sure when there are changes that warrant it I can understand, such as the difference between the laser, radar or digitector. As there are between car, bikes, trucks etc. Otherwise you are clutching at straws.

It sounds like the officer has been doing the job for many years and was very experienced. Funny you should know his job better than him.

oscar
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby oscar » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:28 am

Day wrote:Funny you should know his job better than him.


sounds like he knows the magistrate's job better as well....irrelevant point, exactly what it was

Hardy
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Hardy » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:41 pm

The fact of the matter is that both laser devices are identical in their use and handling. There is nothing that says a person needs to be re trained for something that is identical in operation and result.


Whenever a defence expert comes to court to give evidence about the use of a laser, the prosecutors let rip if the expert gives evidence about his or her experience with a PLII if the laser used by the police was actually a PLIII. Then the differences become so enormous the prosecutor objects to everything the witness says unless he is referring to the proper instrument. So if you want to raise that issue, best to do it when you have an expert in court about to talk about his experiences using a different laser device.

2185xx
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Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby 2185xx » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:46 pm

Day wrote:What's with the yelling of the "NO" and "FACT"? You are coming across as a little childish when people are trying to help you.

The fact of the matter is that both laser devices are identical in their use and handling. There is nothing that says a person needs to be re trained for something that is identical in operation and result. It is like cars, they perform the same way and have the same controls and turn in the same direction when you turn the wheel when in motion. You stated that you had to get relicenced for every new thing you learnt, car/motorbike/truck, well thoses things are significantly different in the same way. Would you suggest that we do a new course every time we wanted to buy / hire a different car? Sure when there are changes that warrant it I can understand, such as the difference between the laser, radar or digitector. As there are between car, bikes, trucks etc. Otherwise you are clutching at straws.

It sounds like the officer has been doing the job for many years and was very experienced. Funny you should know his job better than him.



Australian Standard 4691.2-2003 A7 i see it states "When a new type of laser-based speed detection device is introduced into operation, each operator who will be using it shall be trained to use the new device". so am l reading this wrong then?

Day
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Prolaser III questions

Postby Day » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:24 pm

rustyone wrote:Australian Standard 4691.2-2003 A7 i see it states "When a new type of laser-based speed detection device is introduced into operation, each operator who will be using it shall be trained to use the new device". so am l reading this wrong then?


I don't see how it is relevant to this? http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/ ... 9/s45.html

Is it really a new type of laser based speed detection device? How does it differ from the previous one in operation and results to suggest it is a 'new-type'? It may be a new machine, but new type?


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