Police Body Cams

benny
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Police Body Cams

Postby benny » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:22 am

Hey Sean & All,

I hope everyone is well....

I guess this topic can be loosely related to Traffic and nearly every news article involving Police these days mentions their Body Cams.

So, what's the go with Police Body Cams?

Are they legally able to record (audio/video, both, one or the other) you, can you ask them to turn it off? I think I already know the answer to this, but, indulge me anyway :lol:

Context:
Let's say you were pulled over for a Random Breath Test/Licence Check, followed by the usual chit chat, (keep in mind, while all this is taking place it is being video recorded) and nothing comes of the Traffic stop, it's all routine, pleasant and all clear to go. What happens to that footage, do they file it, upload it, share it or delete it?

From what I understand, some Victorian Government Departments (including Victoria Police) use Facial Recognition software to help fight crime.

In the old days, if you were charged, finger printed and photographed and you win the court case then you can apply to have your finger prints and photos destroyed and the Police have to do it, in your presence.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Benny

Hardy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:01 pm

Seeing they can stop you while driving and demand your photo ID, to see if it matches the photo of you they are already looking at on their computer screen after doing the rego check, I can’t see what the difference is. Maybe just keep your face mask on.
Most complaints are that the police don't switch their BWC on. https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 55si9.html
I've never heard anyone complain that they shouldn't have turned them on.

Gravy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Gravy » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:39 am

In functional terms, the body cameras are not really any different to dash cams in your scenario so I can't see there being any question of legality. What happens to the footage after that however, is a very good question. Unless there's an incident worth retaining (and the user is generally required to actively save the data), dash cam footage is overwritten and lost within a few days or weeks. Is it the same for body cams, or is the footage stored by default?

Hardy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:59 am

The "footage" is stored in the cloud at the end of every shift. We've gone metric so it's not measured by the foot anymore. :wink:

FarSur81
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby FarSur81 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 am

My understanding is that you don't have the "expectation" of privacy in a public place, in regards to being photographed.

A news reporter could film you in the background or foreground. I could be taking a photo of a bird, and you walk in front as I am 'snapping' the photo.

The only private places are home, and technically in your vehicle. If a police officer is recording they should, state this. If they don't, you could argue in court that fact you weren't told, but it's still a public place.

There is an issue with phone calls.(Telecommunications Act 1997, and Listening devices act) Police (or anyone else, including Alexa) cannot record a call in progress without a warrant. But using your mobile phone WHILST IN CHARGE of a vehicle will get you an infringement and points, so don't grab your phone when the police pull you over. IMHO

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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:07 pm

You can grab your phone after you've been pulled over, provided the wheels have stopped turning and you are not stopped in traffic. It's an offence to use your phone while driving a motor vehicle, but not while in charge of a motor vehicle.

FarSur81
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby FarSur81 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:33 pm

Hardy wrote:You can grab your phone after you've been pulled over, provided the wheels have stopped turning and you are not stopped in traffic. It's an offence to use your phone while driving a motor vehicle, but not while in charge of a motor vehicle.


I read somewhere that if the key is in the ignition, and your in the drivers seat, your in charge of the vehicle, and I assumed (Yeah I know Ass u me) that meant use of mobile phone was prohibited.

I just remembered what I was taught about changing "Cassette Tapes" (Shows my age). Pull over and stop the vehicle, place in park, or neutral plus handbrake before attempting to changing music selection.

Gravy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Gravy » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:42 pm

Some police seem to desire that interpretation, and it's likely VicPol was the source of what you read, but it's not what the rule actually states. You can be parked while sitting in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition. Read the link and it makes it pretty clear.

The first port of call for any questions on the road rules should be the rules themselves - not an interpretation (especially from VicRoads; police tend to be better but not on this one). The next port of call is a lawyer.

Gravy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Gravy » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:52 pm

FarSur81 wrote:The only private places are home, and technically in your vehicle.
From what I've read, I don't think that's strictly correct. Or at least it's not that simple. You can stand in a public place with a camera and take photos of people in their house on private land. If the inhabitants want privacy, they can install curtains or some such. I believe the same applies to vehicles.

It's creepy AF to use a telephoto lens to take pictures of people through their windows, but not illegal from a privacy perspective. Might be a different matter in terms of stalking...

And you don't have to be informed of a conversation being recorded - so long as one party to the conversation consents (NB: conversation, not phone call - I believe you're correct about recording phone calls). That applies in a public or private place.

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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:15 pm

There is a difference between recording a phone call which you are not a party to (phone tapping) and recording one which you are a party to (recording your own voice). Only one needs a court order to be lawful.

LEO
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby LEO » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:38 pm

Recording a phone call also falls under federal law, which is different from Victorian law on recording conversations.

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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:20 pm

The Federal law applies to intercepting the communication or recording it while it is in its electronic (digital or analogue) form, whether it be transmitted via wire, cable, fibre-optic, microwave, UHF, VHF, radio-wave etc. I think the Federal legislation does not cover recording sound waves passing through air between a phone speaker and your ear, or between your mouth and a microphone.

FarSur81
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby FarSur81 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:52 am

Hardy wrote:The Federal law applies to intercepting the communication or recording it while it is in its electronic (digital or analogue) form, whether it be transmitted via wire, cable, fibre-optic, microwave, UHF, VHF, radio-wave etc. I think the Federal legislation does not cover recording sound waves passing through air between a phone speaker and your ear, or between your mouth and a microphone.

Yep. An somehow Amazon speakers are legal.
Actually they are illegal according to the Listening devices ACT, as a court appointed officer hasn't signed approval.

Back to telephoto cameras. Yes it is illegal AFAIK. You are a peeping tom. (I'm going to look this up)
EDIT
Nup. I'm wrong, your correct. Security cameras article from herald-sun about spying with.

BN2
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby BN2 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:31 am

benny wrote:Hey Sean & All,

I hope everyone is well....

I guess this topic can be loosely related to Traffic and nearly every news article involving Police these days mentions their Body Cams.

So, what's the go with Police Body Cams?

Are they legally able to record (audio/video, both, one or the other) you, can you ask them to turn it off? I think I already know the answer to this, but, indulge me anyway :lol:



You can ask for the camera to be turned off and the officer will take that, and the policy surrounding the BWC, in to account and make a decision from there.

bluesky
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby bluesky » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:00 pm

Hardy wrote:The Federal law applies to intercepting the communication or recording it while it is in its electronic (digital or analogue) form, whether it be transmitted via wire, cable, fibre-optic, microwave, UHF, VHF, radio-wave etc. I think the Federal legislation does not cover recording sound waves passing through air between a phone speaker and your ear, or between your mouth and a microphone.


So does that mean if I have a scanner tuned into the MMR communication network, I can legally listen to the firies chatter but I can't record it?

Hardy
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:44 am

As a general rule, if you can legally hear it you can legally record it. There are exceptions. Like sitting in a court room - you aren't allowed to turn on a voice or video recorder.
See also http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/ ... da1999210/

oscar
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby oscar » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:08 pm

bluesky wrote:
So does that mean if I have a scanner tuned into the MMR communication network, I can legally listen to the firies chatter but I can't record it?


You can record the coms as they leave your speaker, you cannot intercept the signal.

bluesky
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby bluesky » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:41 pm

oscar wrote:
bluesky wrote:
So does that mean if I have a scanner tuned into the MMR communication network, I can legally listen to the firies chatter but I can't record it?


You can record the coms as they leave your speaker, you cannot intercept the signal.


It's not really possible to get them to my speaker without intercepting the signal though.
The setup would be {UHF unencrypted signal] -> [Scanner audio out] -> [computer audio in] -> [computer hard drive}

bluesky
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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby bluesky » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:43 pm

Hardy wrote:As a general rule, if you can legally hear it you can legally record it. There are exceptions. Like sitting in a court room - you aren't allowed to turn on a voice or video recorder.
See also http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/ ... da1999210/


That's what I was relying on. The architects of the MMR can't reasonably expect the conversations to be private when off-the-shelf legal technology exists to listen in. Especially when there exists encryption that they have chosen to enable only on the Vicpol talkgroups and not AV/MFS.

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Re: Police Body Cams

Postby Hardy » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:00 pm

MFS? Is that the new term for Fire Rescue Victoria?

If you are listening to a scanner all you need to do is put a tape recorder where your ears and and press record.


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